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Jake Griesel at 07:59 15 May via Facebook Mobile
Baruch Spinoza, the Dutch philosopher, had strong pantheistic views and he rejected his Jewish background. Do you share the views of pantheism? I certainly don't. God certainly created everything, but God isn't present in everything in the material world. The material world and God aren't the same thing. It just isn't Biblical.
James Woods at 08:12 on 15 May
Ok Jake but have your read and understand Deuteronomy 32:8 from a few different version if the bible sir you may find that very interesting. Who was Elyon portioning the earth to men or gods? Remember they put Galileo under house arrest for supporting Copernicus .. should we still believe the earth is the center cosmos?
James Woods at 08:15 on 15 May
Jake ... Full Truth is Full Truth no matter what you and I or all of mankind believe. Can we then agree that Full Truth is Kosmic?
Jake Griesel at 08:35 15 May via Facebook Mobile
What has that got to do with Pantheism? Genesis 1:1 (KJV) "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
The earth is YHWH's creation, not YHWH Himself. Spinoza with his pantheistic beliefs, in my view based on the Bible, was a heretic.
In Deuteronomy 32:8, whether you consider the Dead Sea Scrolls which reads "the sons of God", the Greek version which reads "the angels of God" or the Masoretic Text which reads "the sons of Israel", either way, Pantheism isn't Biblical.
James Woods at 08:57 on 15 May
Jake it is well known by scholars that monotheism is an invented concept.... We are all entitled to our beliefs However, I will continue to live by Knowing. Is knowing not an empirical element of life? Would it not be foolish for one to trust his or her life to medical doctor who have studied one book? Why should we trust our Spiritual life to the ... Read moredoctrinal dogma of one book?
Has Elyon the Kosmic one lost His powers that we he children have to settle for regurgitated Stoicism and Neo Platonism concept of the Kosmic intelligence and His Creation and management of the Cosmos? What are we second tare human that we should accept the doctrine of the commandment of men? Where is the full Truth? How did the apostles and the prophets get the Full Truth? Look at the chaos we face--should we not forsake Syllogism and go back to the Kosmic source?
Jake Griesel at 09:10 15 May via Facebook Mobile
Well, I'm a Bible-believing Christian, and the Bible teaches the doctrine of the Trinity, which is a three-in-ONE Godhead consisting of Father, Son and Spirit. That is monotheism. Of course you are entitled to your own beliefs, and I have no problem with that. I don't know what other books you regard as Scripture, but with me, I trust that YHWH ... Read morewouldn't allow the very book that teaches us of His nature and what He is to be false and deceptive. Let me ask you this, do you consider the Entity Lisa and I refer to as YHWH as being the same as the Entity you refer to as Elyon? Because YHWH is one God, and is a spirit.
Katerina Be at 09:11 on 15 May
What I like in Spinoza’s thinking is that he suggested to read critical the bibles. Reading critical does not mean that you reject. It means that you don’t take everything for granted. To me, is the alive spirit of ELYON/YESHUA that comes upon people and brings the knowledge of the eternal father. This knowledge is the sieve of what is written and of all these interpretations that exists. Thanks all the friends that give ground to so challenging issues...
Lloyd Cole at 09:12 on 15 May
A nice healthy exchange Jake,but what is the original meaning of "Pantheism''according to the Oxford dic, said 1 a doctrine which identifies GOD with the universe (KOSMOS) or regards the universe as a manifestation of GOD.2 the worship or tolerance of many gods.Which of these are the original meanings, is the original predates the flood of Noah? ... Read moresince the time period is essential to enquirer fine the correct meaning.How did Adam/Eve understand the identities of the gods whose knowledge they partake? Who are these gods that that they referred to as the wise ones? the Elohims or those who came from the sky?
James Woods at 09:16 on 15 May
Jake what about the other part of the body work that are in the original manuscripts? are you saying that the 66 books of KJB bible and the 11 additional in the NJB will give us perfection? Did the men who received the information achieved perfection? What bible did Paul use to foster the Gentile Church?
Jake Griesel at 09:41 15 May via Facebook Mobile
Yes, I believe the 1611 KJV is adequate to know the nature of YHWH, Adonai, or whatever Name you want to refer to Him as. Again I ask - what other books do you regard as Scripture? And as I refer to myself as a Protestant Christian, what do you refer to yourself as, so I can further investigate your beliefs?
I don't for a second believe YHWH is ... Read moremanifested in all of His creation in the physical realm, because he is Spirit, not a physical being. Paul, whose writings I believe were directed by YHWH, wrote in Romans 1:25 (KJV) "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (God's creation) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." I worship YHWH who I believe is a Spirit and distinct from His creation, not the same as His creation, contradictory to Spinozism.
James Woods at 09:56 on 15 May
Very good Jake you have your beliefs .... I will keep on living and growing by knowing. Many have and will kill for our beliefs like Saul/Paul did?
My intent is not to fallow in the entire footstep of Saul but rather to be taught like Paul did, by the resurrected Yeshua the Truth light who went to his father Elyon.
Jake Griesel at 10:04 15 May via Facebook Mobile
I wouldn't kill (commit murder) for the sake of Christianity, no, because that's not what Christ ordered me to do. The Muslims are told to kill infidels, but Christ instructed His followers to love their enemies. I would die as a martyr for Christ, no problem, because I know where I'm going, but I wouldn't copy the ways of the so-called "Christian ... Read morecrusaders" who waged war against Muslim forces in the Middle Ages. That isn't Christianity. My war is against demons, devils and serpents, not against flesh and blood (Ephesians 6:12), so I wouldn't shed blood for the sake of Christianity, because that wouldn't make me a Christian, would it? Again I ask, what other books do you consider as Scripture and what do would you call yourself, a Spinozist? I'd just like to know where I can read about your beliefs and what you claim to KNOW. You can read about my beliefs in the 1611 KJV.
Lloyd Cole at 11:01 on 15 May
You brothers are very passionate about your true faith.However i cannot remember which books or Scriptures Yeshua said he would ask his father to send his disciples/Apostles was it not the Paraclete an helper? but did not Yeshua explained to his disciples in the Gospel of John, 5, 39-41) that eternal life cannot be found in Scriptures only in him? ... Read moreSo why are we holding on to the aspects of religiosity and not the promise of Yeshua and the Paraclete who must lead,teach and restrained the followers of Yeshua? it is they who have the divine essence and substance is it not? or is it that man/woman don't want to follow ways of the Divine LOGOS who want us to be in his father's WILL as he the SON is? It the Paraclete the Divine and heavenly witness not a book that is made by human imperfect minds and hand.Is it only those who can read and write that the Holy Ghost the (Paraclete) can used to help teach or preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of Elyon? Monophysites Christians follows such ways.
Jake Griesel at 11:20 15 May via Facebook Mobile
The Paraclete (Holy Spirit, Spirit of YHWH) is indeed that, a spirit, which THE BIBLE, the same Book you guys are quoting from, tells us about, not some carnal Spinozist philosophy. And if you see the Bible as made of man's own creativity, then you are in essence saying that the Gospel is a man-made concept, the same Gospel of John which you're ... Read morequoting from, isn't it Lloyd? That same Book that you guys are quoting from is the Book that I believe and stand up for, yet you maintain pantheistic views, which is as far from Biblical as day is from night. I'm sorry James, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from but I just can't seem to understand how you can quote from the Bible (and supposedly believe it) and not have monotheistic Trinitarian beliefs, and more, claim to KNOW.
James Woods at 11:42 on 15 May
Jake you said you want to read about my beliefs. As mentioned above people like me do not live by beliefs, but rather, we live by knowing. Like Paul after his transformation he lived by knowing the risen Yeshua. Further, thank you, virtually all of the West is familiar with the KJV and many us are acquainted about another 16 versions of the bible... Read more. Including the NJB which have 11 additional book than KJV. My questions is who authorized the dogmatic cannon? Did Elyon or Yeshua compile the cannon or was it done by council voters?
Translated in modern language and conducing to our culture, would it not be interesting to know what Greek Septuagint, the Latin Bible, the Great Bible or even the Quaker Bible and more importantly the manuscripts as some of those that were burned in the Library of Alexandria Egypt fire?
John 14:12 ¶Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto
James Woods at 11:47 on 15 May
Jake we are living in great times to be able to have the freedom and the means to be involve ina world wide exchange like this .... all Praise and honour to the Elyon/Yeshua. The Full Truth will come because it is Will of Elyon pain for with the blood of Yeshua......
Jake Griesel at 11:54 15 May via Facebook Mobile
I believe fully in the Son of God, because I have felt His presence in me and I've cast out demons in His Name. But clearly we're not talking about the same Entity, are we? I know Christ, and I know He quoted from Scripture while on earth. And that same Scripture he quoted from you clearly don't regard as valid. The prophets foretold that the ... Read moreMessiah would be called Immanuel, which means "God with us". But with Spinozist philosophy, God was already in the material world around us, which makes Immanuel seem a silly name to give if God was already with us in the physical universe. I have quite a few Bibles, thank you very much, I just prefer using the KJV. And you need to stop quoting from the Bible if you don't believe it. I would never quote Friedrich Nietzsche, because I don't agree with him. You're obviously not agreeing with the Bible, so I don't know why you're quoting from it.
James Woods at 12:28 on 15 May
Jake you live by your beliefs ..... I live by knowing remember how it was believed that the temple bread was only for the priests but David eat the bread when He was hungry and he did not dies as believed. Is that not because lived by knowing and by beliefs. If not he might have starved to death could he not?
Since you live by your beliefs and ... Read moreI live by knowing our action will not be the same and only Elyon/Yeshua can judge my action. At any point was it said your actions were wrong? Is that not for the Kosmic judge to decide? However, it is clearly inferred that the christian dogma is a constructed watered down version of the Truth that was given to Prophets and Apostles. Many of us have asked the question, do we want clean water-- the water that give Life?
Jake Griesel at 12:45 15 May via Facebook Mobile
Knowing? Don't be ridiculous. You haven't disproved anything I said or answered any of my questions. Why do you have a Bible if it's not of importance? Your reasoning ability is feeble to say the least. I know YHWH. And I believe in Him, just like Moses, Elijah and John did. And He isn't the same heretic thing you are worshipping. He is a Holy God... Read more, and He is Spirit. Somewhere along the line you have been deceived by Satan and have rejected God's word. And one more thing before I end this debate - do me a favour and STOP QUOTING A BOOK YOU DON'T ACCEPT AS TRUTHFUL! With your "knowing the satanically-inspired truth", the Bible isn't necessary after all, especially if you don't believe it, because it contradicts everything you stand for. You are willingly ignorant of God's word. But I've said enough. Peace be with you.
Jake? was Yeshua and Saul (who became Paul), Quoting from the same scriptures? didn't Paul believe that his interpretation of the scriptures was right? Now that we can revisit the past, who do you suppose got the scriptures right, Yeshua or Saul? what was the difference between the two, Yeshua's Divine view came through hearing directly from his ... Read morefather through revelations, whereas Saul received his ideas by mens interpretations. Of these two, who was right, who was wrong?After Paul had his spiritual encounter with the Risen Yeshua through a revelation, his views changed into agreement with Yeshua's. This goes to show that interpreting scriptures does not guarantee truth, but with the Spirit of Elyon at work full truth can be known. Example is in the Acts of the Apostle where the new Testament prophets who were given the gifts to be seer's of Mysteries, those who the Paraclete used to select Barnabas and Paul to be Apostles to evangelize the Gospel of the Kingdom.
I have nothing to prove or disprove. Nothing at all!!!! At the end of the day Full Truth not Full Truth and not lies mixed with Truth, regardless of our position? Only the the Truth Light of Elyon matters to me.
Lloyd Cole
Hi James Good morningAt University while studying philosophy I learnt that , the apostle Paul used the concept of the Hellenistic view to explain THEOS/ELYON/YESHUA. He evangelized to the well learned Stoic... Read more’s and Epicureans. Paul understood that the unlearned couldn’t contain or understand the magnitude of knowledge being spoken by the elite philosophers? See (Acts of the Apostles, 17;16-18 we can see the point Spinoza is making in his philosophy. If Cleanthes did not have a good enough explanation, then Paul would not have used his quote, Cleanthes was an educated philosopher, so was Paul, Spinoza, Einstein and many other people in our modern time. Moreover, many learned scholars argue that both Spinoza and Einstein (the genius) were leaning towards Jesus Christ and the Epicurean Philosophers on Mars hill. He used Cleanthes philosophical view of the Kosmos, when he wrote that “In Theos we live move and have our being”.
Did Paul not have some hidden truth?
For further reference
The Great Political Theories Volume 1 pg 86-103 Michael Curtis
James Woods
Did Paul not have some hidden truth?
For further reference
The Great Political Theories Volume 1 pg 86-103 Michael Curtis
James Woods
Thank for the Information Lloyd I will look into it more. In the mean time shall it be taken that Elyon's Full Truth is not a philosophy however, at time take philosophical understanding to relay Kosmic intelligence or knowledge to cosmic intellectual pallet?
Sylvi Sun Beam
Sylvi Sun Beam
Hi Jame, we know that Saul whose name was changed to Paul taught that he was right by holding on his beliefs and his religin and went around killing those who believe and followed Yeshua of Nazareth until he met the Risen Christ and his life was transformed, changed forever; then he became an Apostle of Christ and went around teaching what he ... Read more was taught by Christ? I know where you are coming from James and I stand with you. Throughout this whole discussion you have remained strong, calm, peaceful and respectful, you have kept your composure. When you know what you have no one can shake you.
The Peace of Elyon/Yeshua be with you.
The Peace of Elyon/Yeshua be with you.
How can God not be in all things? Are you aware that all things are made of tiny bits of energy? That those tiny bits of energy are in turn unfathomably tinier resonating coils of a raw force that can nothing more than the sustaining force of God itself? God must be in all things because there is no other way that the Universe can be sustained. And so pantheism or pandeism is not only an adequate condition of the nature of God, but a necessary condition. And can God sustain the Universe in this way and yet not be fully aware, internally aware, of everything that happens in it? Can a person suffer the infliction of any pain without God not merely knowing of the pain, but knowing the pain itself as its own experience?
ReplyDeleteEric.H
ReplyDeleteWell i am Bible shcolar. And what i know from scripture reference is that the Aposte Paul Himself declared in ( 1 corinthians 8:5) that there are really other gods. Yeshoua/Jesus himself stated to the Jews in ( john chap 10:34-35) that even us humans ( not only angels) were called gods!!!! and this just only because he spoke to us. To this disturbing fact he ads : the scripture cannot be broken!!!
PSAUMES 82 verse 1 says that : God give judgment among the gods.
I will share a mystery, in Exodus chapter 7 verse one, God says to Moses: " See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh". !!!!
Now, like Paul says, there are a lot of gods. But for us there is only One God. In this multitude of gods, there is only ONE GOD that is to be worshiped and is worthy of all praises. And it is the Most High. It is YAHWEH.
I believe that without the Paraclet we cannot fully know Christ. We all need the Spirit of truth. And whatever The Spirit inspired or inspires to do according to Hiw will is good. Scriptures were inspired by the Spirit, and people may have comitted translation errors, but the real message is pure. Divine Revelation is from the Spirit, and sometimes some people also misunderstood what they've received because of their unbelieving hearts or pride etc... And by the way, Scriptures came to birth through Divine Revelation.
Satan was in the Presence of the Most High, and saw Him. Did this great privilege stoped him from becoming the evil one ? we all know the answer.
Believing is a great step, but doesnt mean that there is a change in a person, and we can believe anything. We can believe that a piece of paper is God. Knowing, is not a self made assurance about something or someone but it is the result of a true indisputable experience. But it still doesnt mean that the person knowing something or someone will change (like Satan for example).
This is my conclusion. Believing is good. Knowing is better. But Living is the greatest. And he who has the Son has Life. Lets all live in Yeshoua/Jesus.
Love you all with the Real Agape Love.
Eric Richard Huguenin